Glassine Tubes?

From a post on the Thrifty Rocketeer Blog:

CLICK HERE

This opened up responses on the Facebook Model Rocketry Fanatics page:

Roy Green

I’m not sure what they are talking about. Glassine is paper, not plastic. Are they actually talking about the colored tubes used in the ready- or almost-ready-to-fly rockets? I haven’t really noticed a major change* in glassine-covered tubes in decades. The company that makes them has changed ownership in the past few years but they are still made at the same plant.

My response:

I have opened up kits from the late 1960s and 70s, the tubes seem to be slightly more dense. Maybe there is a higher percentage of recycled fibers in recent tubes?

The original name of the tube making company was Euclid, now it is Paramount.

Rick Randol

As Roy said, glassine is paper. The tubes are made the same way and thickness that they’ve been for decades. I would guess the plastic goblin nose cone is actually an old mold that had a thinner plastic ring. They have been making them beefier in recent years. And, you’re right, the fins are not balsa. They have been substituting a different light wood as balsa becomes harder to get and more expensive. I forget the name of the wood.

My response:

Here's a link about weak nose cone tie rings: CLICK HERE

I thought it might be Tung wood, the same wood pressed to get Tung oil. At NARAM 60, I asked Bill Stine if Estes was using Tung wood, he said: "No, it's still Balsa." 

Tung wood is native to China where the kits are bagged up. If you've ever seen the Sky Condor B/G kit (imported by Apogee), the glider is assembled from Tung wood, and it is light, but denser than some balsa.

Steve Thiemke

I suggest cutting the glassine off the tube from the area you need to glue the fin. No need to take it all off. Little tricks to try.

My response:

You could cut off a Glassine strip at the root edge areas on the thicker BT-55 and 60 tubes. I wouldn't recommend this on the thinner walled BT-5, 20 and 50 tubes. The Glassine wrap adds a lot of strength to the tube.

Differences - Flight & Show Models

Some contract builds are assembled simply for "Flight Demos". The "Show Builds" are more involved.

These pictures are from two Quest Astra builds.

The upper picture is a Flight Build, no seams filled on the body tube and launch lugs.

I do always fill the balsa grain though. 

The Show Builds get more attention.

A Show Build has body tube and launch lug seams filled and sanded.

A shot of filler/primer follows and more smooth sanding down to 400 grit.

Color coats follow. 

These are two versions of Quest "Quick Kits".

The top Flight Version has pre-colored body tubes and stickers.

The lower Show Version has filled body tube seams, Filler/primer and sanding then a shot of Ace Hardware Ford Gray Gloss which better matched the background color of the stickers.

The same work was done on the Quest Penetrator builds.

The top model was a quicker Flight Build with the pre-colored body tubes and stickers right out of the kit bag.

The lower Show Build has body tube seams and nose cone mold lines filled. A closer paint color was found to better match the stickers. 

TIP: I take the stickers with me into Ace Hardware to find a better match of the spray paint color.

Unlike years ago - Now the plastic cap color on spray paint cans is a pretty good color indicator of what you'll end up with on your model. 

When I was in the Ace Hardware, some guy was popping off the caps and spraying the shelves! I left the paint aisle, not wanting to inhale any paint in the air. 

An employee asked him to stop painting the indoor store display. The customer got mad, said he wanted to be sure of the paint color and sprayed the shelves again. 

The Ace employee said: "Stop, or leave the store." 

The customer slammed the paint back on the shelf, swore at the employees and stormed out of the store.

I always think: "Wonder if he's that much fun at home?"

Paint Recommendation?

I hate to recommend any brand of spray paint.

I've been using the Krylon Industrial Acryli-Quik Gloss White spray paint with good results. The Krylon Industrial Acryli-Quik was suggested by David Scigs, a clean model builder. His builds are shown on Facebook and the rocketry forums.

This specific Krylon is like the paint I used on rockets in the 1970s. Clean coats and very forgiving.

It's a little more translucent than a Rusto 2X requiring more spray for an opaque finish.

This is not the standard Krylon you find at WalMart - It has to be ordered.

Rustoleum 2X is too unpredictable, especially the gloss white, red and blacks.

The gloss white can sometimes send out a rough, dull pigment loaded coat. The reds and blacks spatter. Other colors take a long time to dry.

I'm almost to the point of throwing away all my stash of Rusto 2X paints - Except for their Metallics - while they can take more coats for coverage, I've had no problems with them.

I've found the Ace Premium Gloss Enamel to be very good. (See picture above) An adjustable nozzle and even coverage. Big color selection.

It dries very fast to the touch - but I'd still follow the re-coat times. READ THE CAN!

When I've had to do touch-ups, a brushed on touch-up blends very well without lifting the base coat.

I hate to recommend a certain paint brand, 

but this stuff is easy to find and has been doing a great job for me. It's available at Ace Hardware.

Disclaimer: Your results may vary. 

Just don't send me an Email saying: 

"You ruined my rocket!"

Model Profile - Quest Penetrator #1618

This is a TALL one! At 38" tall, a little hard to fit in the camera frame. 

It's a bargain at the current retail price of $16.99

At ejection, the body splits at the low adapter and descends under two 14" parachutes.

Lots of stickers - the time consuming part of the build. I took some extra time to be sure they were centered and in line. 

On the Quest Quick Kits, there is a retention ring which locks the 18mm motor in place with a quarter turn to the right.

This was a Show Build for Quest so the tubes got a seam fill and new orange paint to be a closer match to the orange in the stickers.

The black ogive nose cone tops it off. 

Sometimes you want an easy to build model - A large Demo rocket you won't have to worry about if it lands in in the street! How many of your balsa finned rockets have dings and road rash? Quest body tubes are thick and these plastic based kits can take a beating.

Quest Planet Probe #Q1022, Finished

I was surprised how well this one fit together.

It's a simple design with great graphics.

You can also build this with the printing on the inside and apply your own coloring and art to the unprinted white cone.

I have seen these flown at club launches. 

It's a great rocket for small fields.

Quest Planet Probe #Q1022, Part 7, Fin Unit Paint & Shroud Gluing

The instructions don't mention this - 

You should mask off the gluing contact areas. Look close on the left side picture to see the small strips of masking tape around the centering ring edge, the top of the motor tube and the shroud contact points on the fin leading edges.

On the right side, the black has been sprayed and the tape strips removed.

I had to go back and touchup some black paint on the edges of the fins. A little bit of white wasn't covered by the shroud edge.

With the contact areas glued, the shroud is pressed in place while lining up the launch lug cutout.

Apply some pressure on the back of the assembly to set the shroud onto the glue areas.

 I let the unit dry with some light weight on top of the shroud.

Two rolls of masking tape gave enough pressure without distorting the cardstock shroud.

Quest Planet Probe #Q1022, Part 6, Shroud Form & Gluing

I pre-formed the large shroud as I have in the past. The shroud was set in the heel of my left hand. A clean dowel is pressed into the shroud and "drawn" in an arc like a hand on a clock going counter-clockwise.

Keep forming until you have a cone that will stand up on it's own without any glue on the tab. 

TIP: The following shroud glue method can make for a cleaner outside surface.

I don't put glue on the normal "Glue Tab" but set glue inside the other side of the shroud. In the left picture, I've shaded the area with some pencil marks to show where the glue should go.

Apply an even skin of glue (right up to the edge) on the other inside of the shroud, then touch the wet glue onto the (left side) glue tab area. You'll be able to transfer glue onto the left side glue tab right up to the start of the print area. Use the edge on the right side to spread out the glue evenly.

Lift the even glue coated overlap - then line up the tab and press in place.

It helps to clamp the top area with some long, smooth jaw tweezers.

When gluing cardstock to cardstock, you don't need a lot of glue. 

Try to get the glue film as even as you can before pressing the sides together.

Here's a dry fit of the fin unit in the shroud.

I was surprised how well everything fit together.

The fin unit will be painted gloss black before gluing the assembly in, but there will be some masking on the glue contact areas.

Quest Planet Probe #Q1022, Part 5, Fin Gluing

The tube marking guide is on the shroud sheet. 

It didn't match up when wrapped around the yellow motor mount tube.

I went to payloadbay.com CLICK HERE and printed up a three fin marking guide. The outside diameter is .738". 

This is the standard motor mount tube used in many 18mm Quest kits. 

This tube has a notch cut in it but there is no engine hook used in the design. 

TIP: Be sure to set this hook slit at the top of the mount. The tube will be stronger with the engine block right behind the cut slit. A bit of glue will will be pushed over the slit when the engine block is slid in place.

Since this was a show build for Quest, I filled the seam in the yellow tube with CWF. After sanding it got a shot of filler/primer.

I set the root edge next to the motor mount tube and pencil marked just under the top of the root edge. The primer/filler was scraped off down the alignment line to the yellow tube.

The fins were glued on using the the centering ring to help set the top heights. The ring isn't glued on yet.

The scraped line is for the launch lug glued position.

The launch lug is glued in place. 

The centering ring still needs glue fillets.

Quest Planet Probe #Q1022, Part 4, The Launch Lug Slot

Launch Lug shrouds slots are always hard to cut out. Good luck trying to cut the tight circle with a hobby knife or scissors.

TIP: Punch out the small circle first with a rotary punch. Then joint up the the straight sides with a knife and straightedge.

Above - right side picture:

While testing the fit of the lug, round out (and enlarge if needed) the punched circle with a sharpened dowel.

Leave any overhanging lip on the underside of the shroud. That little edge will give you a a bit more support and wider gluing area.

Cut out the outside edge of the shroud with scissors. 

Run a fingertip around the cut edge and you'll feel some highs and lows in the cut.

TIP: Run a piece of 400 grit around the edge. This will take down any inconsistency in the curve.

Quest Planet Probe #Q1022, Part 3, More Cardstock Prep

The top edge of the fins will glue to the sides of the motor mount tube.

The die-cut edge isn't perfectly flat.

I flattened the root edge with 220 grit on a block for a better glue bond.

The top corner edge of the fins glue to the bottom of the centering ring.

This should be a 90 degree angle. 

I checked with my engineers square. Two of the fin tops needed sanding to square them up.

The centering ring was a good friction around the motor mount tube.

In the right side picture - 

Notice the die-cut ring is slightly rounded on one side. The rounded side was hit by the blade first.

TIP: Glue the ring to the tube with the rounded side facing up. This will give you a better fit in the angled sides of the shroud.

Model Profile, Quest Novia #Q1006

From the 1992 Quest catalog page:

"The Quest Novia model rocket is the most traditional of all the Quest kits. The Quest Novia features balsa wood fins and streamer recovery. Did you know the Quest Novia has five possible fin configurations?"

Five possible fin configurations? The current kit instructions don't mention this. Balsa fin grain won't allow you to use any side as a glued root edge. The Centuri and Estes Viking kits had cardstock fins and you could pick your favorite look.

The Novia does look like a stretched MPC Pipsqueak. To compare the two: CLICK HERE

When getting to the simple body tube mask I thought: "Oh great, the 3" from the bottom line will be right on the short launch lug!" 

For once - the suggested mask line cleared the top of the lug.

To play it safe - 

I shot the back of the sticker with some #45 spray adhesive to prevent lifting. Older stickers can lift.

The kit supplied nose cone was molded in a dark orange. It's not easy to totally cover a dark plastic with gloss white - a bit of the orange still shows.

The older instructions recommend an A8-3, B6-4 or C6-5 motors. Personally, I'd go with longer delays. Anything above an A engine and you could easily lose it - even with the streamer recovery.

Quest Planet Probe #Q1022, Part 2, Fin Prepping

The fins and centering ring are die-cut on heavy cardstock, thicker than what you would normally find on centering rings.

After the fins are released from the sheet, there are still some cut "extensions" on the corners that should be trimmed off.

One one side of the die cutting there is some raised crimping. This is caused by the pressure of the blades cutting through the board.

Here I'm using my Sharpie pen burnisher to roll and compress down the raised edges.

Quest Planet Probe #Q1022, Part 1 Parts

The Quest Planet Probe packaging is large and flat!

Good thing - you don't want the large conical body print to have any curves set into it that might work against forming of the shroud. 

Below are all the parts -

I'm not a big fan of the thin, rough yellow motor mount tubing. It certainly works fine but I usually end up strengthening the exposed surfaces with CA glue. You can apply the CA after the fins and launch lug are glued on. CA glue will seal the tube and won't allow wood glue to soak in. Some of the tube roughness can be sanded smooth after a coat of CA.

Here's the parts of interest - 

On the left is the heavy die-cut cardstock. Three fins and a single centering ring.

Below that is the big body shroud print. Great, colorful art that'll add a lot to the finished look. You can also form the shroud with the printing on the inside and apply your own custom décor to the outside white surface.

Quest Kit Lifted Stickers Fix, Part 2

The backs of the vertical stickers (not the body tube roll stickers) will get a fresh shot of 3M Multipurpose 45 spray adhesive.

This is considered a "photo mount" adhesive with not a big grab. It allows for a little re-positioning before you would do a final burnish.

NOTE: I didn't lift the body tube "roll" band stickers. An easy fix is shown at the bottom of the post.

Some masking tape was set down on scrap cardboard, sticky side up.

Note just the edge of the flipped over stickers was set on the tape.

Spray a even coat, directly over the top. You don't want any adhesive to get under to the print side (facing down).

Lightly set the sticker back on the body using the masking tape corners for alignment.

Before burnishing, 

Use your aluminum angle to check the horizontal alignment. Here I'm looking across the top of the text.

The edges of the roll patterns were also starting to lift.

Squares of clear Scotch tape were cut on a piece of plexiglass. These were lifted and set in place using the tip of my knife blade, not using my fingers. Use your fingers and you'll see dirt and fingerprints through the tape. 

Perfect? No, but much better.

Quest Kit Lifted Stickers Fix, Part 1

We've all been here - 

Kit stickers are placed on the rocket and burnished. Over the next few days you notice that the edges are starting to lift.

Over time, the adhesion on the back of pressure sensitive stickers loses some of its grip. These might be from an older kit. They could have been in the bag for a few years. 

While these kit stickers are "peel and stick", age also effects water slide decal transfer and adhesion.

The vertical name decals should get another shot of spray adhesive and be replaced in the same location as before.

To set up a positioning "corner" reference on the model, tape was applied right on the outside edges of the sticker to be removed.

The final color layer on the pre-printed tubes is very thin and could be easily lifted. I did about 10 press and lifts on my jeans pant leg to lift some lint and reduce the stickiness of the masking tape.

The tape was gently placed with no burnishing. I just wanted to outline the corner of the stickers that were lifting.

The stickers were pulled from the outside edges to the center. You can see some of the outside gray layer was pulled off. This will be covered when the sticker is replaced. 

Leave the masking tape positioning corners in place. 

Continued next post -

Estes DARC-1, #7307 Build, Finished

This was something very different from Estes!

A good build challenge with interesting kit materials.

The view from the top above,

The the view of the underside with the black vinyl covering on the inside tube.

The canopy is a tough mask.

The metallic paint worked well here.

The front end with the (display) landing skid in place.