Showing posts with label Staging. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Staging. Show all posts

Sunday, October 23, 2016

Second Stage Veering Off? TIP

THIS IS BIG!
A post from Hornet Driver on The Rocketry Forum:
". . . I gotta tell ya, I've never had a multistage rocket--no matter what type it is--track straight up . They always kick over at least a little when staging and the more you stage the more the problem. I'm personally convinced that it's caused by the sudden KICK when the upper stage lights off. I've gotten away from staging for the most part since my stuff always ends up in the next county over." --- H
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My response:
I've had the same results with two-stagers.
Boost is fine but when the upper engine kicks in it'll veer off at an angle. I don't think it had anything to do with the wind.
That one inch (or less) of a coupler to guide the upper stage doesn't seem to help much.
I avoid flying staged models. I do like clusters, though.

Hans "Chris" Michielssen
Old/New NAR # 19086 SR
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Response from John Boren of Estes: 
We've flown well over a thousand two stage models here at Estes over the past few years and I've found by having the booster fit super loose into the upper stage is the key to the upper stage not veering off course at stage separation. In fact the booster on our E2X lines of models will fall off if let go: They are that loose.

John Boren

Thanks John! So that was my problem all along?
Up until now I've never read that a booster coupler should be "super loose". 
I'm putting together a Long Tom right now. Right out of the bag, the red coupler was very tight. I've sanded it for a better slip fit, I guess I'll have to take it down even more! In the past I've tried for a slip fit on a staging coupler. Not too tight, not too loose.

This is probably why I fitted couplers this way - 
Looking back at the 1970 Estes Technical Manual: CLICK HERE
"Rockets using large diameter tubes (BT-50 and BT-60) require somewhat different methods but the same principles of tight coupling and straight line separation must be followed. The recommended coupling method for large diameter tubes is illustrated in figure 4."

That same copy is used in the original Estes TR-2 on Multi-Staging. To see the Technical Reports: CLICK HERE

Tuesday, November 17, 2015

Composite engine to Black Powder Staging?

From the October 11 N.E.F.A.R. launch, I posted this picture and copy: 
I did a double take when I read the name on Scott Border's Ascender. Clever and funny.
The booster was a composite F51, the second stage was a black powder F15-8.
Perfect flight with a long pause before second stage ignition.


In the post comments, Lester Anderson asked:
"Did Mr. Scott Border offer up any information how he made that staging possible? I have never heard of someone staging a composite engine to a black powder one."

At the November 14 N.E.F.A.R. launch I asked Warren Scott Borders how it was done.
Warren said he cuts down the delay as far down as possible on the Cesoroni booster. Some extra loose black powder is added into the cap. Vent holes are punched into the booster to help upper stage ignition.

According to Warren, he's had great success using this method. Delays on composite engines are routinely shortened using a delay drill tool.