Estes Great Goblin, #9724 Build, Part 20, ACE Hardware Paint?

Why do they keep changing the spray formulas we become accustomed to?

   

I've been using the ACE Hardware Premium Enamel with good results. It reminded me the old formula Krylon.

The first cans I purchased had a spray nozzle shown on the left. Recently the nozzles have been changed and are now like the can on the right.

The paint formula also seems to be changed.

The new formula is thinner, more prone to runs. 

To prevent runs I had to increase the distance from the spray can to the model surface. 

The new thinner, somewhat transparent formula requires more paint to get an opaque, full color. 

If you happen to use light colors like the newer Ace yellow or orange - Be sure your white undercoats are a full, consistent white.

But, the new formula dries to a good gloss.

The yellow paint on the Great Goblin ended up looking a little darker than the color on the can cap.

On the left is the cardstock that was rolled up, keeping the paint out of the top of the body tube. It seems to have a little orange tint to it.

Humidity & Polish

Humidity levels in Florida were high this Winter. Humidity can fog and make a gloss finish hazy.

On the left is the Blue Origin/New Shepard fin after a final, heavier spray coat.

The body tube is glossy, the fins - not so much.

On the right is the same fin, only polished.

You can use automotive Polishing Compound to buff out some of the haze and raise the gloss. It might not end up as shiny as the body tube, but you will see a difference.

I'm using a microfiber cloth.

Polishing by hand is a little like polishing your dress shoes.

Polish one direction, then the other. Or, polish circles clockwise then counterclockwise.

Estes Space Twister #7258, Part 8, BAD Green Paint

I took the decal sheet into Ace Hardware to find a matching can of green paint.

I've had good luck with the Ace Premium Enamel but there wasn't a close match to the green in the Estes decal. 

I had to go with Rustoleum 2X, Spring Green.

Rustoleum - Dun, Dun Dun!

I did a lot of can shaking and some test shots on scrap cardboard before painting the fins.

First fin paint went well, good spray and glossy.

Second fin - dull, flat, almost like their cottage cheese gloss white. The sound of the spray hiss was different. I didn't even shoot the third fin. Let it dry and try to sand it smooth.

Shake and shoot the second fill again.

This time the second fin was good, smooth and glossy.

I proceeded to the third fin. It shot rough again! 

Let it dry, carefully sand and shoot the third fin again, this time with success. 

The last picture shows one of the green fins. This was too much work for a silly inside mask. Thanks for nothing Rustoleum.

The can was shaken and test sprays were done. If there is thick pigment caught up inside the interior feeder tube, you are screwed.

I'm returning this can for a refund.

Estes Asteroid Hunter #3224, Build, Part 19, Light Gray Paint, Polish, Other Colors

I finally found a light gray paint at Ace Hardware.

This looked to be a good match for the face card picture.

I thought we were through the humidity and dull paint here in Florida. There's a tropical storm blowing by and that helped screw things up. The gloss paint dried flat.

TIP: Polishing compound is your best friend! The right side picture shows a decent semi-gloss after some polishing.

While it isn't a full gloss, it is smooth enough to allow a good decal transfer.

The "guns" will be painted metallic black and not hit with the clear dull coat.

The small nozzles and larger plastic fin tips will be painted gloss dark gray.

Take a close look at the masking. Oy!

The "Q" strips that run down the sides are shown as black. I won't be masking these, it would be very difficult. The long side decals should give the trim piece enough interest.

The instructions say to use light gray and dark gray paint. The face card picture shows black on the body tube areas below the nose cone. This mask will take some time!

Rustoleum 2X Gloss White Paint Problems Explained

I'm interrupting the Estes Asteroid Hunter for a day.

This is important information if you have ever experienced a rough spray finish when using Rustoleum 2X Gloss White paint.

Here's a TRF post I missed from October 23, 2020, 

From Jim H., "Blackjack 2564:

"The problem with 2x gloss is titanium dioxide [and VOC's]. This is what gives white it's white.

It's in many paints as a binder for other tints. But with white it's the only one.

The difference between Flat...Semi and gloss is the grind of Titanium.

In theory Ti is ground like small plates [fish scales] as it dries they overlay each other bonding together. The smaller they are, the tighter they bond overlapping, giving a glossier finish.

Think of sandpaper and difference between 100 grit and 600 grit. one is much finer grit than the other.

Same for paints. Flat is heavier grind....high gloss is the finest .

Back to the issue, now that you know how it works. There is a special high gloss paper used for testing. I called Sherwin Williams who makes Krylon and spoke with a chemist in research. Sprayed 2x white gloss on said paper sent it in for analysis.

He called back explaining the above. The problem is Ti getting into cans that is not ground enough so the finish looks like sand in it OR the cans have been exposed to below freezing and the solids which settle in bottom have a reaction crystalizing the Ti. Same results when sprayed. U shake the can clumps of crystallized Ti don't break up enough and us end up with sand finish.

He took batch numbers off my cans and tracked the shipping. My cans sat overnight in a truck stop. That night Atlanta had freezing condition so the paint went bad.

You may keep it in ideal conditions, but where it's been stored and during shipping, before the stores get it...who knows.

Gloss white has the highest content of Ti so it reacts the worst ... now u know "the rest of the story"!

I used to do warranty work for SW dealing with all types of faulty coatings, so I knew what to do/call to get to the bottom of it. :)

And yes its due to reformulation and VOc's. The industrial brand is exempt from EPA and uses old school liquids less prone to freezing issues compared to the cheaper consumer brand.

I'm not defending SWP just letting other know there is a real issue with white and others loaded with Ti.

Other brands may use different methods, and have zero or fewer issues. Krylon is sold at discount outlets and as such let the 'buyer beware'.

P.S.: Now I only buy it during spring and summer for use later, since doing this no issues with whites."

____________________________________________________________________

The Rusto 2X paint problems (rough appearance when sprayed) seems to happen most often with their Gloss White paint. 

I have stopped using the Rusto 2X Gloss White and have switched over to Krylon Industrial Acryli-Quik (Special order from Grainger's) after a suggestion from master builder David Scigs. This is the old formula Krylon we all used in the 1970s - without worries!

The great thing about the Krylon Industrial Acryli-Quik paint is no re-coat time problems!

Other Rusto 2X problem paints are the Gloss Red and Gloss Black, showing spatters and irregular surfaces.

Semroc Micro Mars Lander, KMX-02, Part 11, Cleaning Up & Spray Painting

On the Strut Support Detail Pieces -
The small hold-down tics are sanded off with 400 grit on a block. It doesn't take much to remove them.






There are also small tics inside the three little holes at the top of the strut supports. A toothpick was sanded smooth and the tapered tip rolled in the three holes. This will compress the tic down.



I only sprayed gloss orange on one side of the strut support pieces. Notice they are "mirrored", flipped for each side.

The legs were taped down to a scrap piece of cardboard for spraying with gloss red.
At the root edge, a triangular piece of masking tape masks off the gluing area that will go inside the support housings on the lower body. Set the leg inside the housing and trace around the housing lip to see what should be masked. Notice the outside tip is masked off where the landing pads will be glued.

I got a decent gloss on the red legs. With the humid conditions, the gloss white came out a bit flat! A fix is upcoming . . . 

Oh No! Trying New (Old) Paint

I started in Model Rocketry back in 1969. My "go-to" spray paint was Krylon. (Like we had many choices back then.)
I had very good luck with the old Krylon. Never any re-coat time concerns, like "crazing" or wrinkling of the paint. No spattering or cottage cheese like with the current Rusto 2X Gloss White.

David (Scigs on the forums) is a very fine builder. His posts show catalog quality models.
He has written that the Krylon Industrial Acrylic-Quik is the same paint I used in the late 1960 and through the 1970s - Before they changed the formula.
I had put off buying the Krylon Acryli-Quik paint. No hardware store or hobby shop store carried it. I had to order it online, and drive to Grainger's for pick-up, 20 miles away. A single 12 oz. can was around $8.50.



Here's our correspondence:
Hi David,

I finally broke down and ordered some Krylon Acrylic-Quik from Grainger's.

Four cans of Gloss White to start.

While I don't like the extra expense, I had to things weigh out. It's worth more to me not to take a chance getting that rough, cottage cheese spattering I've seen in the Rusto paints.

I haven't used it yet, I'll follow up on the blog and if I could, use your name as a referral if it works out.

Thanks for the info - Fingers crossed.

Chris Michielssen

Chris, 

It is a shame what has happened to spray paint, I see the "Taggers" are complaining about the quality of paint. The Krylon is pretty much the same old stuff but with limited colors such as no silver paint.  Besides money, Krylon as you have commented on before is more translucent than enamel paints and not as glossy. That aside, it is sure nice that I never have issues painting and love the fact I can recoat anytime. I hope it works for you, take care.

David S.

Estes Tazz #7282 Build, Part 7, White Undercoats

Oh no!
I was using the Rustoleum Premium with great sucess - until today.
The gloss white sprayed out rough! I stopped immediately, only a small area got the rough spray. Luckily it easily sanded smooth.
I test sprayed about ten passes of the gloss white on scrap cardboard before hitting the rocket again.
This time the paint went down smooth.




After the first white coat, you could see some tube bulges at the front leading edge of the main fins.


These were sanded down a bit and shouldn't be as obvious by the time the final color is sprayed.






Here is both sides of the rocket showing the launch lug fillet and leading edge bulge after sanding.

The rocket got an additional shot of gloss white before the overall final color.

Oh No - More Paint Picks

In a post from September 15,
I talked about success using the Ace Hardware Premium Enamel spray paint.

Here's my experience from that post:
The Ace GLOSS WHITE doesn't dry quite as shiny as the Rusto 2X. (See next paragraph)
The Ace LIGHT GRAY dries smooth and glossy.
The Ace GLOSS YELLOW dries smooth, not as shiny as the Rusto 2X
The Ace GLOSS BLACK dries very shiny and smooth. Much better finish than the Rusto 2X

New cans of the Ace brand Gloss White have dried with a flat finish. I can't recommend the Ace Gloss White. Who knows, they may have changed the formulation.
I refuse to go back to using the Rusto 2X gloss white, it's too much of a risk. The Rusto 2X gloss white can shoot out rough, what I've called a "cottage cheese" finish. I think the white pigment settles at the bottom and in the feed straw, that's what shoots out first. You can shake the Rusto can all you want, you still run the risk of a rough finish.

More recently I've had very good results with the Gloss White Rustoleum High Performance Enamel. It dries faster than the Rusto 2X white, dry to the touch in about 20 minutes. The gloss is very shiny. Look for the larger, chrome wrap can.

I've mentioned before, I hate to give spray paint recommendations. So far, the Ace brand paint (other than the gloss white) has been more reliable than the Rusto 2X. Ace has a better nozzle, and good opaque coverage and a great shine.

Semroc (Centuri) Taurus Build, Part 10, Paint Problems & A Fix

I don't know what happened here -

One adapter came out fine after the first white undercoat, the other adapter still showed rough balsa under the paint!
I had to go back and hit it again with filler/primer, sanding and then more gloss white.

This picture shows some sanding of the fillet areas, a normal rough spot. The paint has been sanded down and the gray primer is seen.

Note there is a thin strip of masking tape down the pod support gluing outside (pod root) edge.

More rough edges were found on the leading and trailing edges of the pod supports. Filler/primer was sprayed into a cup. A Q-tip dipped in and the paint rolled just over the leading edges.  

Dry, sand and spray with more gloss white after 48 hours.

Estes Saturn V #1969 Build, Part 52, Finishing Up!

Here's the silver detail after it was hand painted again following the dull coat. Much better!







I didn't glue together the upper assembly so the service module could stay separate (and silver) after the dull coat.

The decals were thin. After the dull coat was sprayed the clear decal edges disappeared!

GOTCHA: The wire anchor ends were about 1/16" too long! I couldn't slide the capsule and adapter shoulders all the way in without bumping into the wire. I had to trim the card stock, carefully bend out  and cut the wire.








GOTCHA: Cut the piece of shroud line to about 15", not 13". You'll need a little more length to have an end long enough to go under the coupler and tie things together.

Here's why you need the longer length -
The line tie has to end up below the bottom of the coupler. The rubber shock cord tie should be below the coupler.

39:30 minutes previous
    :45 this post
41:15 Total Finished!

Apogee SR-72 Darkbird Build Part 8, Paint Problems

I thought I would save some glider weight by not doing a filler primer coat after the CWF was sanded down.

Carpenter's Wood Filler does not seal the balsa wood.
After the first light gloss black was sprayed I was left with a blotchy surface. Even though most all of the Duplicolor Filler/Primer is usually sanded off before color paint is sprayed, it still seals the wood and allows for a smoother paint coat.

The other weird thing was the drying time. The paint on the wood surfaces dried as normal, but the body tubes took four days to dry! Central Florida weather has been mild this week with very low humidity. The paint was a gloss black Rustoleum enamel.

I did some dry sanding to even up the surface.
On the right I used a wide point permanent marker at all the root edges. Sometimes it's hard to get spray paint into the inside edges. I didn't want to add any more paint weight than I have to.

With the surfaces not being as smooth as I would have liked, I switched over to flat black paint. Flat paint can help hide a rough build. Gloss paint shows everything!

The back end of the engine pod got some black from a wide point marker.

Quest Striker AGM Build, Part 9, Paint Drying and Decal Draw

I hate humidity! If the paint would dry I would probably be finished with this one by now.

This lighter gray paint still feels sticky after two days. I don't want to risk spraying it too soon.

I drew up some decals to get the look of the Enertek Astra 2000.

Those blue "rocket" profile fin decals are a guess. It's hard to make out much detail in the online catalog pages.

The "SPACED NEEDLE" decals are for another project.



It's difficult to get the decals to the right size without placing them on the actual fin surface. A fin tracing was done and copied into Corel Draw. I did have to re-size them for a better visual balance.

Uh Oh! - Rusto!

At one time, Rustoleum 2X was a great rocket paint! Then, they changed formulations. Sometimes the 2X gloss white sprays out like cottage cheese leaving a grainy rough finish.
I didn't want to risk any paint problems on the BMS Saturn V so I went to Hobby Lobby to get some Testor's in the small 3 oz. can.
The Testor's Model Master paints have been about the best rattle can paint out there.

When I got the can home I looked at the back of the label.

Let's hope Rustoleum doesn't screw things up!

Estes Citation Patriot, #000652 Build, Part 8, Cleanup and Decal Question

TIP: Mister Clean Magic Sponges will take off most light paint over sprays. On the left is the before, the right side is after the black smudge was removed.

Go light with the magic sponges. The solvent/cleaner could remove more paint than you would want.

Here's the mask line of the one black fin. The nose cone was also painted black, off the model.

When I first saw the Patriot advertised something was off.
Check out the height of the gold eagle decal. On the face card picture there is too much white area around the decal.

When I checked the decal placement in the instructions, the decals were correct. Just like the original kit from 1971.

As with all decals, set them on the model "dry" before applying. On a few kits you realize adjustments have to be made.
On some kits the decals end up going over the launch lugs. You can't trim a thin, wet decal. Here there was no problems.




EDIT: David Carllucy did a new Citation Patriot build on YORF. He shows photo comparisons of the of the decals through different runs of the kit. The newest Patriot kit has decal graphics matching the original Citation kit from 1971. To see the decals over the years: CLICK HERE

Paint Problems On Plastic Nose Cones? TIP

On the NAR Facebook page, Thomas VanBruggen posted:

"I am so frustrated right now… I know I have seen you guys post about the same issue but thought it was always because the clearcoat was a different brand then the paint underneath. Well I’ve learned my lesson, and I’ll never use clearcoat again. Rustoleum 2x paint and then Rustoleum 2x satin clear."

Some thoughts:
Plastic typically takes much longer to dry than body tubes and wood fins. Tubes and fins "breathe" and can dry from both tube surface sides, from the outside and inside. Plastic is "sealed" and and the paint only dries from the outside paint skin going in to the surface of the plastic.
So . . . You might want to wait a day or two longer before follow-up coats on that plastic nose cone. John Boren of Estes has posted that Estes will no longer include balsa nose cones in new kits. If you come across balsa nose cones in a recent Estes kit, they are probably using up old excess inventory.

ASP D Region Tomahawk Build, Part 8, Paint and New Paint

I've finally given up on Rustoleum 2X paint!
Over the past year, their gloss white has been iffy - some cans seem to be fine, others spatter or spray a rough coating. Even if you wait for the paint to totally dry you can still get crazing wrinkles.
Maybe they've changed their formulation. It was pretty good a few years ago.

I've been using Duplicolor gray Filler/Primer for quite some time now. It does fill any remaining grain or tube seams. I've never got a bad can. The spray nozzles are a better quality than the Rusto cans and they don't clog before the can runs out of paint.

Why not use Duplicolor car paint? Some of them are lacquers.
I did find this gloss white acrylic enamel. It's more expensive, but would be worth it if it is compatible and doesn't spit and craze the paint underneath!

I used it for the first time on the D Region Tomahawk.
It doesn't cover as quickly as the Rusto 2X so it probably took another spray coat for an opaque cover.

It is smooth but the gloss isn't as high, but certainly good enough!

True Modeler's Rocket Kits NASA Scout Build, Part 11, Paint!

Crap!
I've been able to live with the inconsistency of the Rusto 2X Gloss White. Lately I've had too many bad results.

Because of my recent California trips, this model had three weeks to dry before I tried to apply a finish coat. Enlarge the picture and you can see the wrinkles.

I like that the Rusto 2X paints cover quickly without too many coats. Have they changed the formula again? Luckily it sands easily.

Estes Star Speeder #1366 Build, Part 14, White Paint Overall

I thought this would be an easy on to paint - Overall white.

Most areas came out fine - on the top of the stabilizer you can see some of the grain still showing. A light sanding with 400 grit will smooth it out for the follow up coats of paint.

There were visible Titebond M&TG fillets around the canopy. These were also sanded with 400 grit wrapped around a Q-tip.

Here's where I ran into trouble.
On the underside there was some wrinkling of the paint.
I had sprayed a white undercoat before I went to California. this paint had two weeks to dry. I sprayed again when I returned and it still wrinkled!

I didn't take a picture of the wrinkles, this shows the area after the rough area was sanded down. I'll let it dry a few days before spraying again.